Ok...here is the start so we can start the discussion. I will post more later with quotes and such from the book. Feel free to add quotes you thought were good before I do if you want.
I love a few things and found them helpful as I was reading. 1st, his idea of where hope comes from. On pg 63 I believe, Wright says. "so where did the hope come from? How in earth do You sustain hope over more than half a millennium while you're watching one regime after another come and go, some promising better things, but all letting you down in the end? How can you go on believing, from generation to generation, that one day God will come and take charge? Re-living the Exodus Answer: you tell the story, you sing the songs, and you keep celebrating God's victory, even though it keeps on not happening."
Hope comes from immersion in a story that gives identity and ethic. I think that is from Bib Faith with Tim Green. The story of the Bible gives identity and ethic. It also gives hope. Because we serve the creator God, because we know that the earth is not like he created it to be, because we have the promise that It will not always be like this, we have hope that it is true and will not always be like this. (I could obviously write more and do not feel like I am doing it justice, but this is why we have conversation.). So more on that later.
On another thread,I love Te flow that goes through history and those who were hopeful Messiah's...the battle and cleansing/rebuilding of the temple. Made a lot of sense and it was cool to see how it has played out throughout history. Also cool to see how this Kingdom is different in how it was excited and carried out.
Also, more on that later.
So, write away and respond...I will try to write more later tonight.
Funny, I called it now and then and I'd not even mention why...I guess I will have to write on that later as well. Had to do with how Kingdom is both now and then. More to follow!
ReplyDeleteWhat great things are in these chapters. We could spend a couple of weeks on these chapters and still have things to talk about.
ReplyDeleteNow and then...I love his attention to discussing how the Kingdom is both now and later...or as someone put it both now and not yet. We are able to truly see the Kindom for what it is and also for what potnetial is has.
How would you preach this? Say a teen dies, a young man in their 30 or 40's dies, someone gets diagnosed with cancer...where is the hope in the "not yet" when you are longing for the "now" healing?
Also, thought it was interesting about Matthew and where he put his calling...in the midst of healing stories. I love the thought that healing is more than physical.
Interested in hearing what you guys heard through the chapters. I have a few more things, but will wait for you guys to write and then respond with more thoughts.
You are right...these chapters are loaded! I just finished chapter 10 this morning. I am not the fastest reader. We probably should have taken this section chapter by chapter. (Want to break-up the final few chapters?) We'll figure this thing out as we go.
ReplyDeleteThe historical context (connection to the Exodus and the perfect storm in general) is really neat. "This is the story about God becoming king." (66) To be able to peek into 1st century life brings new thoughts, new life to Jesus' life and ministry.
Each chapter had great thoughts, but chapter 7 & 10 stuck out to me. "Forgiveness, indeed, is a sort of healing." (72) Jeremy, you mentioned this thought. Jesus' miracles are often associated with the physical healings. How often is the miracle of forgiveness thought of (and celebrated) as a miracle? Forgiveness, heart transformation, is a healing that is part of the new exodus. It should be celebrated! I have asked myself before...do I celebrate forgiveness as much as a physical touch (today)?
How do we preach the kingdom, now and then, in the midst of brokenness? Great, great question. Wouldn't it be nice if this was written plain and simple in a book for us? The example of John's question from prison is where I think a lot of people find themselves. If you are the Messiah, then why all this in my life? "Jesus was well aware that what he was doing didn't fit with what people were expecting. But he believed that he was indeed launching God's kingdom campaign. He was the one in whose presence, work, and teaching Israel's God was indeed becoming king." (85) I wish I could highlight/italicize the word presence because I believe that is a good place to start. The beauty of the connection to the 1st century story is the reality of God's ongoing story...even today. The story continues and it is moving towards an end. His presence is the story of the kingdom. This can be our story. Transformed lives are evidence of the kingdom. The woman in Luke 7 is a good example of that. The kingdom breaks through from the inside out. "Transformed lives,healed from the inside out, are to be the order of the day when God becomes king." (102) Can we preach an easy life with no trials on the 'outside' (or inside for that matter)? No. But we can preach the promise of the presence of God. Does that make brokenness easier to deal with? No. However, it is good news that God is present. How do we know God is present? Jesus. (John 1) How do we 'preach' it? By following his example and being present. It doesn't even require words. I tell my youth workers we show teenagers how much God loves them by being present in their lives. 'God loves you and I am proof of that.' In the same way, one way we might minister and be a part of the kingdom that is now and not yet is being present as God is present; understanding we may not understand everything, yet we do know one day all things will be made right. I don't know if I did a good job of explaining what was in my head. But this discipline of blogging is really good for me in trying to focus some of my thoughts. Thanks for hanging with my scattered mind. :) Of course, we can talk for hours about this idea. So, looking forward to more thoughts here.
Kind of random and small...the word synagogue means a communal "gathering place". (74) How cool is that? Just a language thing for me when people associate 'church' with a place we go. (I am certainly guilty of this.) This was something I picked up on at a conference. I think it was Dan Kimball talking about re-orienting our language to match our theology. It would be nice to have an equivalent...'C'mon kids, we are going to the gathering place.' Weird. I know. But makes more sense (to me) in light of my understanding of 'church'.
ReplyDeleteIt's approaching midnight which means time for bed. I'll write more later. Got a couple thoughts I want to throw out there about this blog. Maybe we can have a 3-way call soon.
1 week--roll tide!
Alright guys, lets try this again.
ReplyDeleteI have really enjoyed reading this book, and makes me wish I would have been reading Wright all along. He does a great job of setting up the context in which Jesus lived, and has helped me understand certain passages in a new way. I love that, and look forward to seeing what the rest of the book has in store for us.
It becomes little easier to understand how it could be possible to miss Messiah when you look at what was going on in the day. I almost feel sorry for the Israelites, going back to your remark Mark about your student who said if he would have been alive when Jesus was alive it would have been easier (these chapters hint at the fact you were right in saying probably not). It would have been tough, and i can understand the skepticism that could come from so many years of the same ole. What the Israelites really wanted was to be Rome though. They wanted to be in that place of might, bringing justice to the world. Would it have been any different for others, that would be those who are not Jews, if the Jews were in that spot. Who knows? They were looking in the wrong spot for the Messiah and God to show up. After all as Mark said earlier, God said "I am who I am." We do the same thing today. We look at others and want what they have, thinking we can usher in the kingdom of God that way, but I believe we often miss the little things and ways to usher in the kingdom.
I love the chapter on forgiveness. It really is some great stuff in there. It is easy to skim by all the forgiveness in the text, but what a shame if we do. Wright does great work with the idea of a healing coming from forgiveness. Can you imagine what that would look like? It makes me look back at Nineveh in the OT. A whole people saved, because of forgiveness. A whole people bent away towards God redeemed and able to live and produce the kingdom because we serve a God who forgives. Imagine the freedom that town must have felt knowing they were forgiven and that they were no longer on the path to destruction. That should be the same freedom we feel as well. Just like the prodigal son though we have a choice of how we are going to respond. We can be like the older brother and Jonah, or we can be like the father who rejoices.
I love the way the last couple of chapters are set up and gone through as well Jeremy. It really brings it all home. There is a ton to talk about when it comes to those ( I am very interested to hear your thoughts on Jesus' enemy and Wright says about that). These are just a couple thoughts with more to come later.
I think we should take a little time and work through these chapters before moving on. I will be ready to post whenever we feel we are done with these chapters. No need to rush and miss some conversation. Let me know what you think.
Seth